anyway i got kind of cornered this morning about why i wouldn’t be attending the memorial.
i said i’m sorry i just can’t go because i believe that jesus is my mediator.
i guess you can imagine the conversation that ensued.
It is really weird how at one time, we were all in lock step in our rejection of JESUS without even giving it a second thought. It's almost like we were all under some sort of spell. Reminds me of the Galatians.
Ch. 3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you
some days ago i posted on another thread that if i ever did get a memorial invitation i would ask for more to give to friends and family but in reality i was going to use it as toilet paper.
the old lady was just too nice.. i honestly thought she was selling something but nope lo and behold she was a jw giving out memorial invitations.. as soon as i opened the door she hand it to me all the while saying i was invited as well as anyone else in my home to this "very special event" which was the celebration of christ's death.. so i played the role.
i looked over the invitation like a curious first timer and as i flipped to read the back i paused, looked up at her and said surprisingly "oh, you are those ... um, .... witnesses, jehovah's witnesses!
Well done Tenacious!
what is your opinion?
do you think we would be perfect robots if there was a 'paradise?
'.
The earthly ones go to meetings and make sure that all of the resurrected shave their beards and wear what everyone else is wearing.
Funny! An interesting side note is that there is no resurrection during the millennium. The 1st Resurrection has already occurred by this time at various points starting at the Rapture and throughout the Great Tribulation as the Tribulation saints are martyred.
But the rest of the dead are not resurrected until the thousand years have ended. The purpose of the second resurrection is strictly so that they can stand trial at the Great White Throne Judgment.
Rev. 20 they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years..... This is the first resurrection.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power..........And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them....And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Those resurrected in the 1st resurrected are judged vicariously by the work Jesus did at the Cross. Those resurrected in the 2nd resurrection, having rejected the work of Christ on their behalf, are then judged by their own works. It doesn't end well for those that end up at the GWT judgment.
Amazingly, JW's are not looking forward to the 1st resurrection since that is reserved for OT faithful and church-age saints (annointed). They are banking on the 2nd resurrection. However, instead of finding panda bears in a garden, they must be judged by their own works since they have been deceived into rejecting the new covenant of Christ where Jesus offers to become a curse in their stead:
Galatians 3 - O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ... has been...set forth? ....Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us
what is your opinion?
do you think we would be perfect robots if there was a 'paradise?
'.
In the bible "Paradise" was part of Sheol. However, if you are referring to the Millennium Reign, it is clear that sin and death will still be there because the sin nature of man is still present; even though its expression will be dramatically suppressed through righteous rule by King Jesus himself.
Isaiah 65
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.
But, for all the OT righteous and the NT believers, they will have glorified bodies with the sin nature removed. Their citizenship is New Jerusalem - heaven (with access to earth)
I personally believe that giving up the free will to sin is part of the New Testament transaction offered by Jesus. That is why they are clothed with immortality. Eventually, all those living will be in this state after the final judgment at the end of the thousand years.
This is the mainline historical Christian view.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1974604?q=mark+baptism&p=par.
if you have not yet come to know and to accept as a way of life the righteous decrees of jehovah, you have no time to lose.
you must act quickly if you are to stand before jehovah’s executional forces with the mark of true christian identification.
Jehovah examines all the billions of human hearts and knows how rare such individuals are.
1. This makes a JW feel special.
Exactly. It plays to peoples' pride and sense of entitlement. I have long thought that JW theology appeals to people already nursing a lot of hurts and hangups.
Scripture, on the other hand deals with such illusions head on with statements like:
There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. - Romans 3:10-12
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. - Eph. 2:8
for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15: 5
this guy studied what happens with the human end of life phenomena and offers some interesting insights.
talks about alternate realities, and cultural effects on ones experience.
i think some might enjoy the way the whole matter is discussed.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sktuk8zd4.
"The micro-tubal structures within the brain act as a quantum mechanical computer and that it is within that collapse of the wave function that consciousness arises and is woven into the brain cell matrix."
That is a pretty close quote. Makes you wonder if a man-made computer can ever achieve consciousness.
today the "anointed" sister that drops off tracts at my house, did a little i'll just stop by and show her a website about furniture and then offer the memorial tract visit.. her exhusband is a jw that did terrible things to her by taking property, didn't want to pay adequate child support and had the elders on his side.
she was telling me all about how, because he felt so guilty, now he had intestinal problems.
eventually the conversation ended and she offered the memorial tract to me.. "did you get an invitation?
Here's my take:
A lot of people are out of touch with reality. They lose themselves in workaholism, alcoholism, and other addictions. Cults are just another addiction that temporarily make a person feel better. It is best viewed as a human to inanimate object relationship. (Maladaptive) Idolatry.
The human eventually takes on the characteristics of the inanimate object (the organization) that they are trying to have a relationship with and become, like it, indifferent...even sociopathic. Only two or more real beings can have a relationship.
It has taken me a lifetime to realize that the people who raised me in this religion as well as my other relatives in it, are quite literally insane.
Recently, I read an article in Psychology Today on sociopaths. In it the author made the statement that the only truly safe position to take with a sociopath is to leave them alone.
does anyone have wts quotations showing that the call of the great crowd did not begin before the 20th century?.
Look forward to seeing the final list!
e tricki've been tossing around the idea of perhaps going to a meeting in the future just to check things out i'm in no hurry this could happen months or years from now.
i would like to give them a witness about some of the problems i see as a newly interested person checking things out.
maybe just hanging back after coming to the meeting late and casually talking with people as a non pushy interested in what going on after some internet search led me to jw.org.
Maybe you can ask them about these two similarities with the Pharisees:
1.
John 9: 22 These words spoke his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
The bible tells us to confess Jesus as LORD... But, the watchtower society says we are to come to them for salvation.. They are just like the jews, the jews put people out of the synagogue for confessing Jesus as LORD, and the watchtower society disfellowships those that call upon Jesus and confess him alone as LORD..
2.
Do not listen to false teachers.. Who are like the Pharisees, the bible says they close the way to heaven so people cannot get there.. - Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Ask why they claim that since the early 20th century, the way to heaven has been closed?
in my local congregation w-a-a-y back in the 60's, there was a brother who was an uber-witness.. brother h. t. jones, as i recall.
stolid.
impassive.
Gripping read. Your girlfriend got kidnapped for real?
